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East Orange: City taking couple to court over front yard
February 24th, 2010, 9:26 am · 219 Comments · posted by EUGENE W. FIELDS, THE ORANGE COUNTY REGISTER
An Orange couple who removed their front lawn to save water, the environment and money have earned the ire of city officials – who are taking the couple to Superior Court over the lack of green on the yard.
Quan Ha said his dispute with city officials dates back to 2008, when Ha and his wife, Angelina, decided to remove all of the grass from in front of their Orange home.
“Our water bill was $180 every two months,” said Ha, 36, an IT manager. “We wanted to save money, and we didn’t want to spend $125 a month on our gardener, and we really didn’t want to use fertilizer or water.”
Angelina Ha said the couple spent approximately $3,000 to have the grass professionally removed. She said when she and her husband discovered she was pregnant, their perspective on the environment changed.
“We wanted to be more earth-friendly,” Angelina Ha said. “It wasn’t a money-saving thing; it was a water-saving thing.”
Wayne Winthers, an assistant city attorney, said the city’s code-enforcement department received a complaint about the Ha family’s front yard, which at the time was just dirt. The yard violated a city law requiring residents to have at least 40 percent of their front property landscaped, Winthers said.
Quan Ha said when he received a violation notice about the yard in 2008, four months after taking out the lawn, he spread wood chips over the yard.
“Wood chips, in our eyes, is landscaping, especially if we don’t want grass,” Ha said. “I don’t see why wood chips are not acceptable as landscaping.”
Winthers said wood chips do not qualify as landscape, according to the city code.
“It’s not landscape material, which has to be live, living plant material,” Winthers said. “The wood chips or mulch doesn’t qualify as living material.”
In June 2009, the city sent the Ha family a draft complaint – a letter stating the city’s intent to file a complaint in court.
Angelina Ha said she and her husband then spent $1,600 to build an ornate fence that borders the property and plant some drought-tolerant plants.
“We’ve been saving for a tree, but that’s thousands of dollars,” Angelina Ha said. “We’re not putting in grass, because our daughter will be crawling around.”
Quan Ha said it was always his family’s intention to plant drought-tolerant plants.
“It’s always been a money issue,” Ha said. “We’re both fortunate to have jobs, but we also have a newborn.”
Winthers said the Ha family missed an October deadline to file a site plan for how they would bring their yard up to code and the city filed court papers.
“They won’t comply, I think, without being forced to,” Winthers said. “We’ve ended up at a crossroads, so we’ll go to court.”
There is a March 2 court date.
Angelina Ha said she mailed photos of the yard with the fence and drought-resistant plants to the city’s code-enforcement department in November but never heard back.
“Because we didn’t get a response, we thought it was fine,” she said. “We’d rather not go to court.”
Quan Ha said his family’s water bill has dropped to $48 every two months, and Ha said his family is helping the environment by not using fertilizer.
“It goes against everything some cities are saying by asking people not to water their lawns,” Ha said of the lawsuit. “California is still a desert.”
Winthers said the goal of taking the Ha family to court is to get them to come into compliance with city law. The maximum penalty, if the Ha family is found guilty of a misdemeanor, is up to six months in jail and up to a $1,000 fine.
“We’re not looking to send anyone to prison, we want compliance,” Winthers said. “This is a last-resort type of thing, because we’ve worked with these people for a long time.”
Contact the writer: 714-704-3704 or efields@ocregister.com
To go to OrangeCityWatch.com, the Register’s blog on the city of Orange, click here.
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Really? Are you serious??
it was a dirty neighbor that filed a complain
They want to see bad lawns
Just come to the West Side of Fullerton where they use the lawns to park vehicles and pile trash
I’m sure the neighbor love when the wind blows dirt and dust all over their houses.
And I’m sure these people just love raking up their neighbors leaves…
Land Of The Free
As a homeowner in Fullerton that is replacing my water-sucking lawn with drought-tolerant landscaping I find this article truly disturbing.
Their water bill sounds really high for the size of house in the picture. My house is a little bigger and have a front and back yard and our bill is $30-35 a month. They should have done some drought resistant plants, not that expensive. I would hate to have to look at that mess if i lived nearby. Maybe they have a slow leak or drip in or around their house.
These people are just cheapos and making this eyseore a burden on the City. And why not put down grass for your crawler -soon to be toddler? It’s a lot better than woodchips. These folks just sound silly. They should read this interview and shrink at their own words and be ashamed of their actions.
Stop wasting everyone else’s time and beautify your neighborhood. I’m sure your neighbors will appreciate it too. Remember, your “crawler “will grown up there so forge strong bonds now.
thats what the backyard is for. the front is just for show. if you want everyhouse to meet your needs i suggest moving into a gated community.
Agreed!
eye-sore? look elsewhere.
worry about the neighbor’s home value goes down, tell them move away.
The lawn merely hurt nobody walking by, nor they pose nude outdoor for the neighbors to see, then I see no problem of having their lawn the way they see fit.
My front-lawn is just natural which is green in Spring and yellow grass root in Summer, I DON’T CARE!!! city don’t like it, come after me then, but make sure its city better bring their check book along because I’m sure as hell that I’m not going to pay for the unnecessary water bill.
After all, If you still don’t like it, why don’t you and the city pay for having the eco-environment landscaping with monthly watering, I’m sure the couples would love to do it your ‘people’ nanny’s way.
It’ll be the trial of the century!
Smells like socialism. All this enviro hype and they nail these people that are saving money. GOD THIS COUNTRY IS STARTING TO SUCK! What’s next the cars in you’re drive way? The color of your house? The door knob etc…. These city workers and lobbiest need to burn in HELL! This is a fine example of our FREEDOM going, going GONE !~!!!!
Almost sounds like Irvine.
Get real man. What are your talking about!? Irvine would have your head spinning compared to this!
John you are so right! Our country is going to hell in a handbasket, and it is due to our socialist ran governement that are doing things behind our backs that we eleceted into office! Obama in particular, we live in a country where justice is supposed to be the main thing but we have a president who is a citizen of another country, but they have a blind eye to it due to his “official title”. Until Americans stand up against these officials and take our country back it is only gonna get worse!
Wonderful! They are letting hundreds of convicted criminals out of jail but they want to jail someone who doesn’t have a lawn. Are they serious? Another example of our government at work.
was thinking the same thing………geeee,put down grass, yet we get told we can only use so much water, which means the grass dies
Not the same people making these decisions. The city is enforcing existing codes. The people letting the criminals out a little early are not the city of Orange. Don’t you wish life was so simple?
The City of Orange is spending tax dollars on this,get real will yaa.
Typical douchebag city govt officials weilding their measly power
Winthers pos, get a life.
He does have a life. He is a government worker ready to stick to “non-compliant” families.
Another example of an over intrusive government.
Why are there two different headlines for this story? It’s almost as if OCR is sensationalist!
“Our water bill was $180 every two months,” said Ha, 36, an IT manager. “We wanted to save money, and we didn’t want to spend $125 a month on our gardener, and we really didn’t want to use fertilizer or water.”…
_____________________________________________________
PLEASE! Ha could have re-landscaped his yard with native plants and grasses, that require only occasional water. He could have made it a desertscape
Just because we all ‘had’ to lower water use last year, doesn’t mean you should let your home look like a home in TJ.
Some people deserve to rent only.
bobby, why don’t you be a good person and go help this family.
just sayin’
Why don’t you go help him – good idea.
The difference is, I am not making snide remarks about this story, and YES, I have helped my neighbors. Now, sit back and relax and have a happy day.
This looks like a home in TJ?
Sometimes I think people forget we live in a desert. The lack of grass is not necessarily ghetto. This front yard doesn’t look dirty or unkempt. There’s just an absence of green. I’m not saying it looks fantastic, but I’ve seen a lot worse. The question is to what extent a government entity should be allowed to impose subjective aesthetic requirements on private property owners.
Some people can’t afford to landscape their yard! I know… I am one of those people! The city thinks it’s all well and good to pass laws REQUIRING you to landscape your yard but they won’t pay the cost for the upkeep. Since we have to pay the cost for the upkeep, and we own the property, shouldn’t it be OUR decision on if we can AFFORD to landscape our lawn or not?
thats horrible, no one “deserves to rent only”
There was another home in the city of Orange that relandscaped with native plants and grasses and those people had to fight with the City of Orange because *their* neighbors complained. It’s a lose-lose situation. And frankly, the renters on my street have a yard that looks like it’s in a slum. They and the homeowner could care less. I’d rather have someone living there who keeps it clean. Ha’s yard is clean, no trash, no 4 foot high weeds, etc. People just refuse to be satisfied when something doesn’t meet with their standards.
I support the family 100% this is just another example of arrogant oppressive government acting as an enemy towards the people.
Go to court and get a jury of Americans and shove this up the rear end of the city!
Who is the “enemy” in this one? A famil trying to save money with a baby on the way or Mr. Withers?
I hope the city gets nailed!
I agree! This is pathetic.
Unfortunately, if a jury of Americans follows instructions properly, they will not be able to decide whether the law makes sense. They will only be able to determine whether existing law was broken. And, dang it!, it seems as though it was.
I see ugly front yards like this all the time in Westminister and Garden Grove, so I applaud the City of Orange for doing the right thing and protecting their residents from irresponsible neighbors like the Ha’s.
It’s clear the Ha’s have no intention of complying with the city codes and they’ll use any excuse in the book to try to justify their stubborness. Why wouldn’t a family with a newborn want a yard for their child to enjoy? They want their kid playing in the dirt?
If they really want to save the earth, install a waterless yard. It’s green, it looks like real grass, it requires no maintenance, and your newborn will enjoy it! It’s a win-win for everyone, but people I’m sure the Ha’s will come up with another irrational excuse to do nothing.
If you are talking about fake grass, according to the article the yard has to be 40% living plants (not plastic that looks like grass) so that idea is a no-go
Is the fake lawn free?
If not, are you or the precious city paying for the bill of having the fake lawn?
You said you saw many “ugly front yards like this all the time in Westminster and Garden Grove”, my guess is those 2 cities are really believe in less government, and more freedom to their people. Or at least, they’d spend the tax money to do better and more meaningful things than this. They must be smart people!!!
Im all for saving water but cant they at least landscape their front yard with drought tolerant plants? You can buy trees online for less money than a brand name nursery – Im confused where their “thousands” of dollars for a tree comes from unless they’re buying some mature tree. Sounds like they’re a litte lazy and now are using the excuse of their newborn to do nothing about it. JMO.
Maybe if the State was legitimately concerned about conserving water, they would pass a law restricting the ability of cities and HOAs to prevent conversion of lawns to drought friendly alternatives. To that end, the Ha’s could have managed this a little more effectively.
Don’t want to take care of a yard? The buy a condo…
Want to control other people lives, then move into Community area.
Interesting that the city has nothing better to do than go after these people.
Yeah, cause there certainly isn’t a gang or crime problem in Orange!
At leased not one without a “landscaped ” yard!!
The police take care of the gangs and crime. The code enforcement officer is just doing his job which is to enforce the municipal codes of the city.
I am glad that I am old and will not have to be faced with such b.s and nonsense. much longer, I thought the government was for the people, by the people and all that good stuff that has been fed to us for years. What do these people want? The crooks and bandits and pirates are the ones on our side? What the hell?
Why not try artificial turf for their front lawn? It’s beautiful and needs no watering.
They’d still be out of compliance using artificial turf since per Winthers: “It’s not landscape material, which has to be live, living plant material”
it has to be living – 40% living material according to the article
“It’s not landscape material, which has to be live, living plant material,” Winthers said. “The wood chips or mulch doesn’t qualify as living material.”
I don’t think AstroTurf qualifies.
The Ha family should be able to keep their yard as it is. However, if the city ends up winning this battle, the Ha family should plant some drought-tolerant plants like rosemary, sage and cacti.
Perhaps, parsley and thyme too?
you gotta be a real moron to WANT to live in OC. It is a yard for cryin’ out loud. Who cares?
Didn’t wan’t to spen 180/mo but spent 3k to have it removed? Makes no sense.
Stupid argument.
On the other hand if there is no association rules, who cares! But, out.
2160 a year in water. That means they break even at 18 months or so.
I find your argument quite stupid.
Actually, they were paying $180 every TWO months, and their water bill did not drop to zero, it’s now $48 every two months. Thus, they are saving $180-48= $132 every TWO months, which is $792/yr in water savings. This would then require 3.8 years before you get any payback from water savings, although I’ll admit losing the gardener saves them a lot of money. On the other hand -
Ripping out grass – $3,000
Legal Fees – $25,000
Going to jail for not complying with your City Municipal Code – priceless!
Beside the water bill, has anyone consider on the time and cost to maintain the lawn. I’m for one not interested in mowing the lawn at all. And that’s just one of the thing I hate about up-keeping the lawn.
HELLO? That’s only if their water bill drops to zero – AND it’s 180 every TWO months!! Plus we assuming the 180 every two months is an average number. Good thinking man!
Ripping out lawn – $3,000
Legal Fees and Court Appearances – $25,000
Being sent to jail because you are too high and mighty (eco-conscious) to follow City Municipal Codes – Priceless!
Maye you need to take a refresher course in math 101. If its one year, or two, it doesnt matter. They will save money at a certein point. You dont work for the govt do you?
Nice point!
if your a homeowner living next to this guy, trying to sell your home and your value goes down because of your neighbors unsightly yard, you would think differently people.
Easy to judge and call names when its not you being affected.
That should largely be a risk you assume when you buy property. Your neighbors shouldn’t owe you anything when it comes to their private property, except to not make circumstances unsafe or unsanitary.
Its his home, if he wants to have a dirt yard, the more power to him. If his neighbors think its that important, then they should move. Freedom is more important than home values.
Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Ive seen the house next to him, it is overgrown like a jungle. Looks like someone planted 200 different plants and trees then died in the house. No manicuring at all!!! Would you rather have that???? Until you know who and what your talking about, I suggest keeping your lame thoughts and comments to yourself!
from these photos, this yard does look somewhat ugly, if they were decide to unload his home, chances are the buyer will rework the front yard, from my opinion you don’t need to have a full green grass for the front yard, drive around in the fountain valley area and you’ll see many houses have different type of low water consumption landscape in their front yard and they look gorgeous.
Here is what the yard actually looks like… they did not post the full view of the front yard…
http://twitpic.com/154eiv
Hey, it looks pretty nice with the wood chips.
Looks like they can use the help of a good landscaper. Native plants and drip irrigation is the way to go if you want to improve the aesthetics of your residence and also lower your water bill. Here is the contact ifo for a company that can help.
CALIFORNIA ROMANTICA LANDSCAPES
rserna@crlhome.com
Funny thing is we paid $1,000 for a landscape drawing after we removed the yard and the landscaper said it would cost us another 10,000+ for the plants…
very frustrating. So we have been planting small items every month.
angelina
ANOTHER CITY SLACKERS DUMP THINKING, MONEY DOWN THE DRAIN………….
This is outrageous and the city should be embarrassed.
If this is the most important thing these city officials and courts have to do, they should be retired and save the city money.
Really, in times like this, with people losing homes, filing bankruptcy, losing jobs, crime rising, investments at rock bottom – the city has nothing better to do than harrass a tax paying citizen about his lack of grass!
Go find a real criminal, clear up the back log of building permits, find slum lords, fight the war against drugs – something that would actually put our tax dollars to real use and make the city a better place.
Embarrassing!
Please, no excuses. In Big Bear currently new construction on homes does not allow grass in the front or back to conserve on water and the landscape is beautiful. There are many ways to make the front yard look presentable then a dirt mess. They shoud have respect of the community who lives there as wel. Go live in the desert where snakes are your neighbors.
Go live in a communist country where human right to his/her own home has no respect.
Water Bills have SKYROCKETED. My water bill is now averaging $400 per month. Golden State Water Company just increased prices 36%. Why did they do this? They bought all new trucks, they have cushy retirement pensions to pay and they set a record for the highest Lease Price paid on their offices in San Dimas. It’s CRIMINAL.
Cities have run wild, oppressing citizens, acting as tyrants instead of public service. The City of Tustin is about to get nailed over its abusive behavior. The Tustin School District is suing the Nazis down at the City of Tustin over these same issues. Finally, someone as big as the School District can take on the City.
Yes it is criminal. When the government moves from “to serve the people” to “make a profit off of the peopoe” we are truly screwed!
I always find it hilarious that libertarian leaning OC’ers love to get in a tizzy every time someone tries to landscape THEIR property in a way that the other people don’t like.
Our government can’t generate private sector jobs, can’t control illegal immigration, can’t stop the proliferation of gangs, but they are real proficient in voting in “In God We Trust” signs at city hall and getting people to water their lawns.
Put in some astroturf!
the yard must be 40% living material – not plastic
This is a fine example of how local officials are wasting taxpayers’ monies! California is way over budget that the state has to mandate early release of prisoners, cutting teaching positions, etc… & yet has the resources & will for city officials to conduct this kind of frivolous lawsuit.
From the story, it appears that the family is working with the city by putting wood chips, drought-tolerant plants & what-nots, but it’s the city who is putting up a fight in order to milk monies from regular folks who are raising a family, paying taxes & enjoying their home.
Wayne Winthers & his bullying friends at the city should just drop it & get a life!
If the requirement for 40% landscaping was/is in their CC&Rs, then they’d have known about it from the beginning. We don’t all agree with all rules we’re forced to obey, but they are rules. And in this case, rules they likely agreed to prior to buying the house. There are water-friendly solutions other than a barren yard of dirt and weeds. I know I wouldn’t want to live near a home that looks abandoned and neglected. Not that I don’t understand or even agree with their motives, but it seems they could have found a more acceptable solution that both met their needs, as well as community requirements.
We actually do have succulents and pittosporum tenuifolium trees in the front yard and we also have a nice fence… The article did not post the full view of the front yard…
We also do not live in an association with cc&R’s.
Can you get mold to grow in the bare spots in the shape of a big center finger?
It’s not in the CC&Rs, it’s city code and it can be changed without homeowners knowing it.
Also any argument about the value of your neighbor’s home being reduced because this guy doesn’t have a full yard of grass is juvenile. 1) the house value is already low (read the news much)
2) most buyers would probably just think they were in the middle of an improvement anyway
3) there is no field when running property comps – for “status of neighbors yard”
end of the day – this should still be America and if the guy wants a dirt yard to save money and doesn’t mind the dust – leave him alone
Just to add. There’s would be much dirt as they do have plants in front (which is not shown on the picture, typical media to leave that out to make their story) and they lay down wood chips.
If they were illegals from Mexico who bought their home with stolen indentities, the city would leave them alone.
No, the City would first grant them amnesty from prosecution for the first items and then take them to court for the lawn.
no the city would give them grants, then amnesty…you know, to make sure they repay the grant with welfare monies…..oh, yes I did..
next headline:
Couple being sued for using too much water on their lawn..A Tustin couple is being sued because 100% of their lawn is landscaped and excessive use of water is needed to maintain the landscape….DUH!
No, the city would pay them grants, then amnesty, then welfare, then harass whoever complains about bunch of cars parking on the lawn of the illegal’s house and thousands of people are infesting inside of it.
Please pay the $180 per month so the water company executive’s salaries, pensions and medical benefits can continue to rise.
“East Orange” aka Santa Ana. Who cares!
This is so hypocritical of the city…in fact ALL cities. They want you (even mandate with fines and rates hikes) to make you conserve water (no watering on the first and 15…don’t hose down your patio) YET they go after a family trying to conserve. I realize the neighbors are probably fed up with the dirt and dead grass…but it sounds like they made improvements.
This is typical…DO AS WE SAY! Now…WE’RE TAKING YOU COURT!
Let me get this straight: Our state suffers from drought, but we want homeowners to water their lawns. Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
If it isn’t the water Nazis, it’s the landscaping commissars. Tell ‘em all to go to Hell!
This is what we get because the majority of the electorate bought a bill of goods in No-bama. At least they’re coming to their senses now: maybe we can yet save our freedom!
To me the bottom line is that the city has a code and they are not abiding by it. What is the big deal? Now way is it going to save that much money. Mr. Wood Chips Ha has wood chips in his skull. Why do people insist on making issues out of things like this? Big deal – plant something there. Put in some lawn seed or some drought tolerant plants. The dude whas a house which requires numerous upkeep costs that far outwheigh this one. What a dweeb.
Steve, why did someone complain about their yard in the first place, if they didnt think the lawn impacted the value of their home? The requirement is in the code, if they dont like it, get the code changed. By buying a house you are responsible for it meeting these requirements. The entire purpose of these regulatory devices is to PRESERVE home values. You are marching against a long line of historical and empirical research that reaches this conclusion if you simply dismiss this as ‘socialism.’
People complain about things all the time. I had a nasty note left on my front porch about my dog (when she was inside sleeping) it was from the people behind me. I went to may neighbors and told them all it wasn’t my dog, and yet at 2:00AM the police come knocking on my door to ask about the barking dog (the one in the house behind me)
I doubt seriously that anyone has any empirical evidence that this effected their home value in any way. I just bought a house and wasn’t given a list of all the city ordinances for home owner.
And in order to get the code changed would require time and money that lots of people don’t have today. Hopefully now that the city has brought this issue up, they will change their own dumb laws by themselves.
Look at it this way, be reducing the home values, maybe more people can afford a house in that neighborhood
your not against lower income people moving into your neighborhood are you?
this isn’t property taxes we are talking about, or a health violation, safety hazard, or even presenting his home like it is a gang-hangout or drug house. In fact, I bet there are a few homes in the neighborhood that do have gang members doing drug deals from and they have grass – why isn’t our city attorney over there?
Think of it as Maslow’s Hierarchy of Spending Tax Dollars, are we really at the enlightened stage that we need to concern our time and resources with this?
“your not against lower income people moving into your neighborhood are you?”
I think the answer is that people buy into nicer neighborhoods because they are better all the way around – and they cost more. So what kind of a question is that? If lower income people are moving in then the neighborhood is lower income = not as nice of any area. Does anyone WANT that?
I personally don’t care what my neighbor’s income is. He could be a trust fund baby, he could be spending 90% of his income to make his mortgage. If he is a nice guy then we can be friends.
And it depends on how you measure “better” the Artesia Bellflower Cerritos school district is well known for being top notch, but home values are only slightly higher than some of the neighboring cities.
Irvine is very safe and less expensive than Newport.
Costa Mesa is expensive but they have a few neighborhoods that are pretty dangerous. Tustin costs less and has a pretty strong community.
And I am pretty glad that home prices came down, that was the only way I would be able to purchase a home and I have a good job and make decent money.
And they make places for people that are concerned about these kinds of things, they are called Home Owner Associations. There they can tell you how to keep your home up, and you won’t get an argument from me. Move to HOA and you are assured that your home value won’t go down because of someone’s dirt yard
That’s the problem when you buy a home you don’t know all the city ordiances. You learn as you go. It’s not like when you buy a home you can do what you want to, you think since you own the home and pay the large amount of house payments and city taxes you could do what you want to until you get a notice from the city that you can’t park here you can’t paint your house this color you cant landscape this and that and the list goes on. If you really what to find out what’s what you need to go down to the city and find these things out. Then if you don’t agree do something about it. If you get enough people on your side and get things going sometime it works if you really work hard at it.
While the family has clearly made some poor financial decisions, I defend their right to do whatever the heck they want with their little plot of land.
Last time I checked, this was the USA . . . land of the FREE.
Good then I’ll encourage your neighbors to grow weeds and park their van in their front yard. Maybe a few couches and old appliances would be nice as well. Then again, maybe I’m describing your front yard.
Nice personal attack, Micky. That’s all you’ve got?
Yeah, that’s all I’ve got.
The city could give the homeowners a low interest loan so they can have the yard done. How much is it costing the city to take them to court? The city should be working with the resident not taking them to court.
Not in a million years would someone complain if they put down artificial grass — true, it’s not in compliance with the law, put the city would never notice. The new fake turf is very good.
We actually do have succulents and pittosporum tenuifolium trees in the front yard and we also have a nice fence… The article did not post the full view of the front yard…
I also asked about the fake grass and this was “Not approved”
There is nothing worse than the one homeowner (or renter) in your community that has a dirt front yard. I have a neighbor that has put down woodships and it looks rediculous. I have another neighbor who’s house looks like it belongs in Iraq. It boils my blood every time I drive by… I would take the castle house in h.b. next to me instead of these two dumps. At least that guy has pride of ownership.
We actually do have succulents and pittosporum tenuifolium trees in the front yard and we also have a nice fence… The article did not post the full view of the front yard…
You have gotten to be kidding me. Now every year the govt is talking about over crowded jails/prisons and therefore send home a lot of convicts and felons. Now govt want to put somebody to jail because civilians don’t want to spend money on decorating and water their lawn? this is starting to look like communism. Ha is Vietnamese. We came to US to seek for freedom, and this is what you called freedom? I suggest Ha to talk to vietnamese community leaders such as Janet Nguyen, Van Tran, Andy Quach, etc. They can help.
This Wayne Winthers is a real character – http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazing/breaking-news/city-of-orange-taking-little-o/
Guess after he tried to send the 77 year-old lady to jail for not spending $150K from her Social Security budget to correct 40 year-old unpermited home improvements (that were there when she bought the house), he needed a new challenge.
Go get ‘em Wayne!
In the lunch room today, I heard about this couple’s nightmare with Wayne Winters, so I looked it up in the Register, and read all the comments.
Thank you for providing the link about the 77-year old lady. It was a real eye opener. Makes me furious!
Seeing what the little old lady was charged with, I fear for the couple over their lawn.
For goodness sake, aren’t we’ told to conserve water??
I hope Ha won’t fly a small plane and crash the City Hall like the other guy crashed the IRS building
This is communism – you do what we tell you to do, or else . . .
Yeah right. Good one.
Nice attitude. Guess that’s what you told your parents when they told you not to do something? What’s the FU attitude about?
Nice one!!! Now we have to look at our beloved government as our parents as well. good boy!
That this is even an issue speaks volumes. It is HIS PROPERTY and HIS CHOICE. If one of his neighbours has evidence of damages let him take the guy to court. But for the city to wield the big hand of government over a lawn. People need to wake up (especially you anti drug conservatives) freedom is freedom. You can’t cut it up into little slices. This submit to government because it knows best is what for us to the crappy place we are…
Their landscaping looks great compared to my neighbors ghetto looking landscape. I wish the Corona City officials would follow the same policy as the city of Orange.
I stopped watering my hard. Three times a week, for 20 minutes each day, to keep my front yard green. My water bill was almost $80 a month. I stopped watering it… now it is $35 a month.
In LA county, there is mandatory water conversation and starting next month, the water company is going to implement tiered rates.. just like SCE. Even with out watering my lawn, I will still be in tier 3. My water bill is estimated to go up $10.
What does the government want? Green yards or save water? Make up your mind. I say everybody in Orange rip up their yards and tell the city to pound sand. Try to haul in over 100,000 residents into court. Make some noise.
Well, 100,000 people don’t care THAT much.
Your water bill is just another form of tax and the Water Dept. has to get paid too.
Maybe you can go plant some of your lovely flowers in his yard.
We need to fire these idiots from the top –> down
get rid Arnold and the legislator clowns in Sacramento and then going to to the city level after that.
couldn’t they just put a fence…and call it quits…They said they want their daughter to crawl around on the yard….huh! well a fence would be a safety issue…then no one knows what the hell is going on behind it…
Besides being a typically slanted Register story, by questioning everything that the City says while not questioning the Has at all, the Ha’s statements don’t even make any sense. Their child is going to be crawling around in the dirt and not on a lawn? A tree costs thousands? It was their intention to plant drought tolerant plants, yet they spread wood chips across their yard instead.
The Has save hundreds of dollars each month on water and gardener bills (according to their own claims), but can’t spend a few dollars on some drought tolerant plants. Saving money and being environmentally sensitive is a good thing, but being a good neighbor and a good citizen is equally important.
Come on Register, if you guys feel compelled to cover a story, at least try to be fair in your reporting.
Good point. The kids will get splinters from those wood chips – they aren’t good for crawling on. I thought the same thing – a tree cost thousands? And how hard is it to put in a few plants and maybe a small patch of grass and then add the wood chips/mulch. The water costs are not that much? How can they afford everything else that comes with home ownership?
Land of the Free, eh Comrade?
If you don’t want to landscape your yard then why not just move to the desert? When you buy a house there are EXISTING rules in most cases that apply to you and EVERYONE else. That’s really “terrific” you want to “save the environment” but you should do so while playing by the rules like EVERYONE else.
How is it fair that the other homes suffer a decline in their property value because you want to save the environment. Love thy neighbor as thyself.
1. no proof that his dirt yard effects the neighbor’s value
2. the criminals living in the neighborhood probably have a greater impact
3. he has still has to drive to work every day, moving to the desert probably isn’t reasonable
4. I am willing to bet there are a host of other rules that plenty of other neighors are not following, yet they aren’t going after them
5. if you are going to pull the Bible reference out – Jesus’ first rule – apply to yourself first
What does #2 and #4 have to do with it? These sound like arguments children give to their parents. Other people are just as bad or worse so I don’t have to do it either. C’mon man.
If these city officials are really trying to protect property values and are using my tax dollars to do it, then they should at least try and get the biggest bang for the buck and either go after all of them at the same time or at least start with the worst law-breakers.
If the arguement is property value will suffer because of his yard, then the values will improve if he puts in grass right?
There are limited resources, use them wisely – is this the best use of their time?
They are doing their job! They see a house not meeting code, they let the property owner know. You’re assuming the people who specificaly enforce these codes have other people who are worse violaters to go after in plain view – that they would otherwise not be able to catch – ? That’s like a cop who see someone not signal and he’s supposed to wait until he sees someone run a red light. Or he doesn’t get someone for running a red light because he’s supposed to look for gang members instead. What kind of logic is this anyway? It’s basically saying small things don’t matter if I don’t agree with them.
Interesting arguement.
But that same cop that pulled over a person for not using his turn signal, sits and watches a bank robber drive by and doesn’t leave the minor infraction alone and go get the real criminal.
I still stand by the fact, that this cannot be the best use of our public officials time. If it took 5 minutes and $5 to correct, by all means, but it doesn’t it is going to cost the city thousands of dollars and days of work.
Not all crime are created equal, some clearly present a far greater hazard to our community and greater burden to the tax payers. This is that exact case, it is a drop in a very large bucket and when asked about the rising crime rates (serious, dangerous, expensive crimes), we will be told they don’t have enough manpower.
I guarantee you or I could take a 15 minute drive around this neighborhood and find things that are far more worth the expenditure of time and energy.
Steve, As far as #5 applying to me:
It would NEVER get this far with my yard, the mere mention that my neighbors or the city had a problem and I would be mortified. That’s the kind of person I am. I would care that my neighbors were bothered by my yard and I would comply.
You do realize we are talking about someone NOT complying with EXISTING rules put in place by the government? Whether they effect the property value or not is not the primary issue. I had a neighbor who had mosquitoes breeding in their pool and while this was not something I could see, it was something it was something that had to be disclosed should I sell my house because I KNEW about it. How do you think it effects the resale of a property when your neighbor is in violation of city code?
I agree with mosquitos, that is a safety hazard to everyone around them. If this were that situation, I would probably have a different opinion. But quite frankly some laws are silly and should have never been enacted in the first place (American history shows this very colorfully). He also didn’t know about the code until 4 months AFTER he removed the grass, which before today I would have never imagined I had such a limitation in my own property.
As a side note, I agree with you and would never do anything to impact the safety or sanity of my neighborhood. But I was once accused by a city official while in WA state for a project car I was working on on my property. It was under a car cover when I wasn’t working on it. But some neighbor around the corner saw the car, and complained, the city official looked under the cover and found some obscure law to threaten to tow my car off and charge me the towing fees. All the while there were 5 other cars on blocks within 3 blocks of my house – and none of them were contacted
You can’t tell me you know every code and condition required by the city on your property.
In Palm Springs, a lot of front yards are covered in ROCKS. What about this couple doing that, too?? With some plant life there, too..? I live in Orange; where is “East Orange”? Cross streets, please? And what is the Mayor’s opinion of all this? She is STRANGLEY S I L E N T!!!
cross streets are cannon\chapman on avenida palmar street…
Here is a better pic of the dront yard… http://twitpic.com/154eiv
people are going crazy Hina….
look like tj or nort dakota montana or arizona bobby?
city of orange….get a life and spend my tax dollars more wisely. next thing you know the will be spend tax dollars on stopping a bunch of college students wearing only underwear from gathing in the circle…….oh wait…..
“CONSERVE WATER! Just don’t take it into your head to do it YOUR way…I mean come on…it’s only YOUR house, how dare you land scape YOUR house different than how the CITY wants?”…slippery slope people, some cities FINE you for hosing down your patio for pity sake!
Do you realize this is a government agency wasting time and energy with something so petty regarding a tax paying homeowner?
How about going after the homeowners (or should I say the BANKS that now own these homes) that have been ABANDONED by people who leveraged their houses to the hilt and then split? Tearing out all the fixtures, INCLUDING the sprinkler systems and leaving animals behind, NO? Oh that’s because it becomes the CITIES headache to clean up and board up the windows, keep the homeless out and pull out the 5 foot high weeds. HYPOCRITES!
This is ridiculous, the city found someone they could SQUEEZE…knock it off.
AND AGAIN…where are the pix of the new fence and plants?.
This is the same type of argument so many others use. Whenever the police or anyone enforces an existing rule then they are wasting tax money because you don’t happen to think it’s important. Wait until the shoe is on the other foot someday.
Are you kidding?…I live in West Newport…I know what BLIGHT looks like and I know how far a city can go when they see a problem.
This is NOT a problem…this is a concerted attack. I am ALL for city involvement when a resident is not caring for their property…BUT, these officials could drive down ANY street and see homes that have been abandoned and GO AFTER the banks who own the loans to fix them…
DO THEY? No, because THAT takes more work than hassling a TAX PAYING HOMEOWNER.
It’s not a problem because it’s your opinion, but it is still the city code. It’s not a problem when you don’t want to follow it. Nice thinking.
Glad they are not my neighbors.
Sounds like the Has should have done some research prior to having the lawn ripped out, like city codes and a landscaping quote. $3000, plus the money they spent on the fence and plants? With their water and gardener savings, they could have done way better than what they ended up with (ugly).
Wonder how they would fair in China if they did not follow laws?
this opinion prove my point, and the last time I checked, this still is America. NOT China. Yet you people somehow prove me wrong. How ironic!
We, in Garden Grove, were in the same situation as the Ha family, but not this far. At the time, we just got the new baby, we both work, (thanks goodness). We have had enough stresses from work, from the newborn and trying to re-do the front yard. In this economy, we tried to get the best deal for the work, however, the city kept sending notices demanding the front yard work. Meanwhile, the city increased the water bill to 20%. I understand that we need to follow the city codes and upkeep the neighborhood, however, please be reasonable and be supportive for the family with the newborn. You wouldn’t want another family to receive welfare, would you? Since one of the parent needs to stay home to take good care of the lawn and the baby…..
Exactly what are the rules? That you must have grass, and grass only? What about wood chips? I’ve seen them in other areas, no complaints I assume. What about a whole yard of concrete patio? Would that violate because its not landscaped? They maybe need to define what 40% of landscape means. I’ve seen landscape done with wood chips. Sure seems there should be something more important for code violations to worry about…
Glad I don’t live in Orange
Maybe this cities “code enforcement” isn’t getting the grease the “building dept.” guys are getting?
What a waste of time and taxpayer money! I don’t recall seeing a car up on blocks in his front yard. I too live in Orange and if you drive through the barrio near Hewes and Chapman you will see a lot worse.
When i went shopping for a house, I looked for local schools, parks, markets, recent sales price for comparable properties. When I drove through the neighborhood I looked at the condition of sidewalks and streets, I talked to a few neighbors.
What I DIDN’T notice – condition of lawns, age of cars, condition of paint, condition of roof and windows on neighbors houses, etc.
If his dirt yard brought the value down, then what about the other things that can make a neighborhood look run down – old cars, dirty cars, old paint, old windows (except in Old Town), too many cars parked in driveway.
Are you “home value” people ready to buy a new car? Replace your windows? Need to make sure the property value is optimized right?
We are talking about grass and some plants, not a new car!!
We are talking about my home value and my neighbor’s ’72 Pinto is driving the value of my home down. He needs to buy a new Bimmer or at least a Lexus.
There has to be a law preventing him from parking his old junker car on my street, where prospective buyers will see it, and not be willing to pay full price for my home (even though I have no plans to sell it right now.
You must pretend to NOT understanding his point, don’t you?
Hey OCR do you realize there are TWO sets of comments going on?
One for the article and one for the pix? Just wondering.
Good, lock’em up. All they need to do is comply over mooooooooooove out. Stop being such a pain in the you know what.
Of course until they come after you to paint your house, or clean the oil out of your driveway, or trim your tree, or replace your windows, etc.
Its always easy to throw rocks at someone else when they are down isn’t.
Over the years, I have lived and worked in Orange quite a bit and it astounds me to no end that the city (most cities) can not use common sense to resolve problems without resorting to the old standby, “its in the code”.
What about the code about how many individuals can live a SFD or 1,2,3 Bdrm Apt? In Orange, you can routinely find a single home with 5+ more cars out front of a SFR that also has an illegally converted garage. Yeah, that’s not an eyesore or code violation right?
Screw you Orange. We were considering looking for our future home in that area again but not after this continued non-sense.
The guys lawn is barron yet I bet within a 2 block area, there are countless illegals living like pack rats in a SFR or Apt building without concern of city interference.
Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh our governing bodies are so friggen out of control and direction its enough to make a man want to do things he would never think of doing.
looks like there is more than just dirt in the front yard. from the photos… there seems to be about 40% weed, which counts as living plants?
With bureaucrats like we have in the City of Orange, it’s no wonder California is so deep in debt.
We actually do have succulents and pittosporum tenuifolium trees in the front yard and we also have a nice fence… The article did not post the full view of the front yard…
I also asked about the fake grass and this was “Not approved”
Here is what the yard actually looks like… they did not post the full view of the front yard…
http://twitpic.com/154eiv
Ms. Ha,
You have the regular citizenry support. Fight for logic and reason. If you need defense fund support, please advise.
DO NOT LET THOSE FACISTS HYPOCRITES GET AWAY WITH THEIR BULLYING.
http://www.backtonatives.org
California native landscaping at its finest.
I think the city of orange needs to get real and stop bing so stuped . This is why everybody i know that used to live there is moving away.
TOO LATE!!!
At every turn, you have the State of CA threatening to further shut off the water feed from No Cal (to save the Delta Smelt-whoopee!), everyone clamoring to go green to save natural resources and here we have a citizen who is not so vain as to believe that a green frontyard makes them who they are or the value of their house/neighborhood worth more than Mother Earth herself. That kind of thinking needs to be commended not condemned.
if i were in this situation i think i’d just plant weeds, those are living right? ha!
Regardless of your point of view, I must say it looks ugly.
You know what they say about opinions.
The city of Orange would be better off providing an”interest free” loan or grant to these people to finish the job to their standards, than to take them to court. Attorneys are usually $400-$500 an hour and I would guess 3 hours of attorney time would cover the cost to complete their yard with drought friendly plants.
I’m struggling with the same situation, only up in Valencia. Change is unconfortable, but neccessary. Gone are the days in the 1950′s where a neighborhood was a see of uniformed, grass lawns. Wake up people! It’s inpracticle for our region’s weather, irresponsible to our water supply, and too expensive to maintain.
We all are forced by associations and cities to keep green lawns front and back, pouring precious water on them, which evaporates and increases the humidity level in So.Cal.
And do you know what the number one greenhouse gas is? By far?
It’s WATER VAPOR!
Fight greenhouse gasses by putting down wood chips, drought-tolerant plants, and stop feeding climate change!
As one who had to deal with the code enforcement in the city of XXX, I can attest to the fact that the code enforcement is the biggest racket/joke in government. My elderly and widowed mother was threatened for over a year to make “improvements” to her home – which she owns outright. Every two months she would receive a notice from code enforcement to lay down grass or reseed a part of the yard (with requirements as to the type of grass to use), or directions to stop clipping some hedges, or asking that she ater the grass more often, etc. No matter how much she complied there was always a new issue to be dealt with. After thousands of dollars in repairs/upgrades/downgrades/changes/etc, and months of being threatened by the code enforcement that she would be taken to court, face thousands in fines, and possibly even a prison term, we had enough. I spoke with the code enforcement offices directly and welcomed the chance to go to court to tell a judge (and show a judge the photos of the changes, and the code offices letters), the code office disappeared. Just as recently as this week the office has yet to return my calls asking them for a letter that they have in fact closed the case, and/or acknowledge my request for a court date. Absolutely corrupted and a waste of tax funds. They need to do something about the fact that crime in the city is getting worse by the day instead of harassing the old folks who built it into a once great place to live.
Wait a minute. You are not supposed to water your lawn (so it browns and dies) and yet you cannot remove it. Jeez! City Officials, get your act together! I water mine ’till it’s nice and bluegreen. They raise my rates, hey no biggie. I just pay the increase. After all that I have spent on landscaping, I am not going to let mine wither and look like some of the others who have let theirs go. Can’t the city ever meet the residents in the middle?
Cities have codes and one has to adhere to them and if you don’t like such codes then don’t live there. Codes are there for a reason and if we did not have such codes it would be chaos…………think 3rd world country.
No Paul. I think you are nothing more than a SHEEP that needs to be hand held everywhere you go and told what to do by your government (btw, reminder to you: GOVERNMENT = THE PEOPLE).
Stand up sheep!
Hmmm, I am pretty sure (and a certain Book tells me) that sheep have hooves–cloven ones, mind you–not hands.
Wow, you are indeed a clever sheep.
Wait, sheep can’t think cleverly either. Unless you are in a old school cartoon.
You a ‘toon?
I’m guessing loon.
yes but to go over court for not having a lawn but wood chips, its not like they put landmines in there front yard.
Let’s see: Most recently it was Anaheim trying to fine a store owner for not replacing the glass in her storefront that was etched with graffiti by vandals–$466.00 fine. Now it is this asininity by the City of Orange. We truly have problems with the lack of common sense in this world, and I am willing to bet that I could spend a few hours in Orange and find MANY instances of lawns not being maintained that go by without any of this nonsense. Why is that? Are our elected and appointed officials really that stupid when it comes to enforcement? Are there not better and more productive ways for them to spend their time? Seriously….
The thing most of you are failing to realize is that they left their front yard with JUST dirt. When the winds kick up their dirt will be flying all over their immediate area and falling on other peoples property. When the rain was here I’m fairly certain their dirt-front-lawn turned in to mud and probably was washed away in to the street.
Their intentions were just, but they should have looked in to alternatives for California climate friendly front lawns and they would’ve seen beautiful front lawn setups with California native, and drought resistant, plants. Going down to your local gardening store and asking them about water-friendly plants will do just fine!
The city has the right to go after these people as they failed to comply and didn’t respond in a timely manner.
thats what the woodchips are for.
We all are forced by associations to keep green lawns front and back, pouring precious water on them, which evaporates and increases the humidity level in So.Cal.
And do you know what the number one greenhouse gas is? By far?
It’s WATER VAPOR!
Fight greenhouse gasses by putting down wood chips, drought-tolerant plants, and stop feeding climate change!
Oh boy, you really are a big shot! Yes sir, I’ll do my research Mr Lawyer sir! I didn’t realize they let lawyers graduate who can’t tell the difference from “due” and “do”, hey but what do I know?
As for land of the free?
Sorry but that is no longer true! Read the Patriot act! We are done! you can be deemed a terrorist by doing almost anything and all your rights are gone! Gone! Gone!
This stupid little petty crap is the way of the future! Make sure you wipe the right direction! And your car is waxed, and you get approval to change a light bulb as long “as it is the approved Chinese florescent one”. Incandescent is outlawed now…
Good luck to these people, just do what the nation does, plant the grass and go back to the TV.
This is bureaucracy at it’s finest.
City of Orange – use your collective heads, this is not the most effective use of money, propose a change in the code to reflect the changing values and economic times and quit wasting taxpayers money of foolishness.
ftw
Bunch of fools in city gov..
This is a tough one. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but the couple says they’ve been saving for a tree that costs thousands, yet they spent thousands to remove the grass. The husband says it’s about money and the wife says it’s ‘not’ about money, it’s about water. Either the story has it wrong or they don’t have all the facts. I’m sure that there is so much more going on than what we are reading above.
As much as I like to live in a neighborhood that looks nice when you drive through it, I also understand that the couple might be going through financial difficulties and the fact is, I just don’t know what they’re going through…so I’d be happy with wood chips in their yard and keep my worrying to my yard.
Everyone needs to realize the city and Winthers did not go out looking for these people. A neighbor made a complaint and the city has to act. They are just enforcing the law. If you want to blame someone – blame the neighbor who could not walk across the street and simply ask them to help beautify the neighborhood.
The city does not know about these things until a complaint comes in from Joe Citizen.
your kidding me being not having a lawn is against codes, its their yard its not the cities yard putting down wood chips is illegal you kidding me.
this stupid they have the right to do this it is private property. besides there saving water and that is helpful, does the city prefer a water shortage.
this is wrong.
give them directions to Barstow
Why pay $3000 do have the lawn removed?
Why not just water it once a week? Heck,
during the winter a bermuda lawn is dormant
anyway!
So, water once a week and the grass die leaving a whole lawn of yellow, ugly weed. The stupid neighbor who complained at the first place still not happy, and call the stupid city. The stupid city again want to sue the couple… What now, may I ask?
Glad they are not my neighbors! If you dont want grass then you need to put in another option that makes the yard presentable. Why should a whole street have to look at a yard that is a eye sore? Before you spent thousands on having the grass removed you should have thought of what will take its place. Why not just put artifical grass in the front…that is one option.
According to the story fake grass wouldn’t be an option in Orange:
“The yard violated a city law requiring residents to have at least 40 percent of their front property landscaped, Winthers said.”
In addition, fake grass is horrible for the environment – it’s made of plastic and of course plastic is made of oil.
Fake grass still has to be watered – yes, that’s right, fake grass has to be watered! The water is necessary to wash off the debris.
Also, have you ever smelled faked grass after dogs pee on it, even with it rinsed? THAT is an odor that would cause neighbors to complain for sure!!
Fake grass is REALLY expensive too.
You will notice that I quoted the wrong part of the story – oops!
This is what I should have quoted:
“It’s not landscape material, which has to be live, living plant material,” Winthers said.”
I PERSONALLY KNOW THESE PEOPLE. THEY HAVE A VALID POINT ABOUT THE SO CALLED ” GROUND-COVER” I LIVE IN ANAHEIM HILLS. THE CITY OF ANAHEIM IS PERFECTLY FINE WITH ME USING MULCH AND OR WOOD CHIPS AS THE HA’S CALL IT FOR GROUND-COVER. INFACT, OVER 70% OF MY PLANTERS AND SLOPES ARE COVERED WITH IT AS PER CITY REQUEST. THEY ARE DOING NOTHING WRONG BY WANTING TO SAVE WATER. DIRT AND DUST DOES NOT BLOW ALL OVER THE PLACE BECAUSE OF THE WOOD CHIPS. THE CITY OF ORANGE IS NOTORIOUS FOR MAKING THE GOOD HOMEOWNERS OF ORANGE PAY FOR THIER BUDGET. ALWAYS FINDING SOME LOOP-HOLE OF MAKING HOMEOWNERS AND BUSINESS OWNERS PAY FOR THINGS THAT ARE NOT CLEARLY STATED IN THIER CODES. I WOULD NEVER LIVE OR START A BUSINESS IN THE CITY OF ORANGE DUE TO THIS. IT’S REALLY TOO BAD, WOULD BE A NICE PLACE TO LIVE IF THEY DIDNT HOLD PEOPLE HOSTAGE FOR MINOR ” BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE IT” OFFENSES. THE HA’S ARE GREAT PEOPLE. THEY ABIDE BY ALL LAWS. IF I WAS TRYING TO COMPLY WITH A CITY ORDINANCE BY SENDING PICTURES OF MY UPDATED LANDSCAPING AND GOT NO RESPONSE, I’D FEEL THAT IT WAS UP TO CODE AND DISREGARD ANY FURTHER ACTIONS ALSO. WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO A GOVERNMENT ” FOR THE PEOPLE”??
BUT I CANT TYPE OR SPELL HAHA HA’S
And my eyes are still ringing after reading your posts.
So sad….what a waste of money!!! Why cant people just worrie about there own lifes and just be happy to have jobs or a roof over your head!! Calif is going down the drain fast thank god i moved out of that broke state!!
Okay, what happened to the days when everyone minded THEIR OWN business. I mean really now over grass? I thought were in a drought and they are asking people to not water their yards to help with the decreasing water level. And who wants their child crawling on the grass that people let their dogs piss and crap on when they walk their animals.
California’s going to hell in a handbag and people are worried about whether or not their neighbor is growing grass in their front yard….give me a break!!!!!!!!
they need to put up a little wall so nobody can see whether or not they have a lawn
I know Wayne Winthers, what a TOOL! Maybe the City could have Judge Judy mediate the dispute. She’d rip Winthers a new one. It’d be good tv.
I think Mr. Blumkin is on to something!! Judge Judy vs Winthers would be awesome TV! I’d dvr it.
Chewing gum, a la corbay! No, Mambas!!!
Wayne Winthers is by far the most accomplished attorney the city has working for it. His bio says he even AmJur’d in Landscape Law in law school, which is a real honor. He might come across as a gruff New York sonofa***, but he only has the city’s best interests at heart. Probably.
Good one Yram. But I heard he won that Am Jur award in an auction on ebay! But seriously, I spoke with Winthers about this matter. He was kind enough to take my call. From what I could understand of him, he is genuine about the City’s best interests and assured me he was only looking for compliance. Really seems like a good guy. He sounded kinda cute too!!
this is rediculous… they have a nice landscaped yard now w/dought resistant plants… leave them the hell alone, if the order of the day was to plant lawns and suck up as much water as possible the city would maybe have a case, but its not like that… friggen bizzaro world!!!
Winthers should be ashamed of himself !!!
if you get a lawyer to try to sue the town clowns I got 20.00 for you.
Heee Heee. Saw the interview on news, I feel your pain. It is funny how when you try to do what you are challenged to do [save water during a drought] you are fined. Costa Mesa did the same to me last year and after having my house on 3 news channels, the Register, Pilot and Times; not to mention all over the enter net the city finally settled for plants, a few trees (they planted because most of the problem was their property) and dirt. My water usage went down 36%, I did have it down 43% but the plants needed some water. Finally to all of you that bash those of us who take the challenge to conserve water. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE $$ – IT’S ABOUT THE WATER STUPID!
Did they say three thousand dollars to remove grass and thousands of dollars for a tree? We removed our grass for less than $100 and our cool neighbor gave us a tree that is now quite large. We share plants and seeds in our neighborhood. These people need better neighbors.